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06/24/2022
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Randall Brower, DPM
Dr. Feinberg, your comment about not being recognized as an equal may have been true in your day, and it may still be true in certain areas of the country. However, the younger generation of orthopedic surgeons who did their residencies with us, shoulder to shoulder, see that we are equal. Podiatry schools that were stand-alone for decades with no affiliation with DO schools, may have a problem with DOs and MDs not seeing them as equal. In Des Moines and other schools, where for decades, the first two years of medical school are the same for DPMs as DOs, we all had the same teachers, classes, and exams - all sitting together (except we didn't do OB or Psych). These DO colleagues regard us as an equals because we did the same MEDICAL training in school and even did better than them academically in many instances.
Dr. Feinberg, respectfully, I am afraid that you are living in the past, 40 years in the past, with your neurologist colleague who was right about us largely in the past but very wrong about us today. Stand-alone podiatry schools have to go, and they must truly integrate into an MD or DO medical school like Iowa.
Randall Brower, DPM, Avondale, AZ
Other messages in this thread:
06/17/2024
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Ivar E. Roth, DPM
Dr. Jacobs is again spot on with this current opinion. He is right that all these miscellaneous boards are silly. Get boarded after residency with the one board and if you want special recognition, get a certification from that board that has rigorous qualifications for that specific area. Again Bravo Dr. Jacobs; now let’s get this done once and for all.
Ivar E. Roth, DPM, Newport Beach, CA
06/14/2024
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Paul Slowik, DPM, Rod Tomczak, DPM, MD, EdD
Kudos to doctors Rogers and Jacobs for once again being the voice of reason. It’s podiatrists’ pettiness that disempowers us.
Paul Slowik, DPM, Oceanside, CA
I agree with Dr. Jacobs and his views he shared with us in the June 13th PM News. It was quite serendipitous that I came to The Ohio State University College of Medicine. On May 19, 1995, one of the podiatry students who is now a faculty member at the University of Alabama, Birmingham called and asked me if I had seen the advertisement for the faculty position at Ohio State. To be honest, I hadn’t, but upon inspection it looked intriguing. I had a friend who was a pediatric spine surgeon, Tom Kling, MD at the University of Indiana, and I called to ask him if he knew the chair of orthopedics at Ohio State. He said he knew him quite well.
He said he would call him right then for me but warned me that Shelly Simon, MD was a well-respected foot and ankle surgeon in the orthopedic community and warned me that it was, “Shelly’s way or the highway,” but I would be fine. Not more than 30 minutes later, Shelly called me and asked if I could come the following Wednesday to be interviewed on...
Editor's note: Dr. Tomczak's extended-length letter can be read here.
07/21/2022
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Connie Lee Bills, DPM
I agree with Dr. Neuhoff regarding residency length. I’ve been practicing for 27 years and the scope did not change when the length of residency changed. I did a one-year residency where frankly my Co-Directors were not interested in bringing cases for us to perform. I did gain a lot of routine “primary care podiatry” skills. The course of study is prohibitive. My sister became a P.A. after I started practicing, and made more than I did in far less time.
Connie Lee Bills, DPM, Mount Pleasant, MI
06/25/2022
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Robert Scott Steinberg, DPM, Allen Jacobs, DPM
Please double-check and tell us if you know of any college of podiatric medicine offers all the same courses as are offered in medical schools. I know of none. At issue in Illinois, Rosland Franklin University - Scholl College of Podiatric Medicine refuses to give podiatry students Peds, Psych, or Ob/Gyn, which are being taught at their medical school. Considering the plummeting enrollment numbers, and the colleges' apparent lack of interest in keeping up, it appears a number of podiatry colleges are going to close.
Robert Scott Steinberg, DPM, Schaumburg, IL
Dr. Brower is living in fantasyland when he suggests that the DPM degree is now recognized as equal to an MD/DO degree. There is a difference between being accepted as a recipient of referrals for care of the foot and ankle and the actual legal definition of the DPM degree. There is reality and there are unicorns. Do you believe that you are paid equally for your services as an orthopedic surgeon? Can you give up podiatry and practice primary care? Do you require the signature of an MD to prescribe diabetic shoes? Do you have the ability to independently admit to a hospital and medically manage a patient? Do you believe AOFAS believes you are their equal? Do you honestly believe that your education is equivalent to that of an MD minus OB/GYN and psychiatry?
I suggest that you are more than incorrect. I further suggest that you go back and read Dr. Markinson’s thoughts on this subject published in PM News. There are many trusted with referrals from MDs, to wit: physical therapists, audiologists, dietitians, occupational therapists, dentists, optometrists, as examples. However, although trusted for your competency in doing what you do best and better than any other healthcare provider, foot and ankle care, you are not an equal to an MD. Never were, and never will be.
Allen Jacobs, DPM, St. Louis, MO
06/23/2022
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Paul Betschart, DPM, Tim Vogler, DPM
I don’t think the poor sentiment regarding medical practice is limited to podiatry. I think many of our MD and DO colleagues feel the same about recommending medicine as a career to their children. There were a lot less parents hooding children at my son's graduation this year than there were when my brother-in-law graduated medical school 25 years ago.
Paul Betschart, DPM, Danbury, CT
Dr. Chisholm succinctly outlines the problem with “podiatry” as a profession. We are the only graduates of residency training that graduate able to do less than when we were residents. This is dictated only by our limited licensure not by our degree. Changing the degree to an MD or DO will ultimately destroy the profession, as fewer and fewer graduates would take residencies in podiatric medicine and surgery. The profession would wither on the vine over time and disappear. Clearly, the best path forward is to expand training, testing, and licensure with the DPM degree. I am proud of my profession and I take great pride in the work I (and my colleagues) do every day.
Tim Vogler, DPM, Winston Salem, NC
06/21/2022
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Daniel White, DPM
The biggest hindrance I find in podiatry is every DPM seems to have a different value they place on what they do. There isn’t really an industry standard in confidence. Few DPMs charge comparable prices to MDs or DOs. Patients see the irregularity in pricing and they also see how the doctor values their service by what is charged.
I’ve experienced a lot of different doctors’ offices in NYC doing locum tenens work. Too many podiatrists here undervalue what they do. I can tell by how patients treat me doing locum tenens work how well the DPM is respected at that office. Cost of service is perceived to be linked with quality received. My thought: our profession needs a way to lift itself up as a whole and support each other; rather than do things like financially take advantage of newly graduated residents and young physicians.
Daniel White, DPM, NY, NY
06/20/2022
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Elliot Udell, DPM
Dr. Trepal wrote that after reading a post in this discussion, a potential student opted not to become a podiatrist. This hurt. Dr. Trepal's comment opens up a can of worms on how we should handle our discussions about sensitive topics. Sure, we do not want a potential student to drop out after reading what any of us has to say. On the other hand, does this mean that we should curtail our honest debate, and discussion of sensitive issues? Should these discussions be somehow restricted so that only licensed DPMs can read them?
Elliot Udell, DPM, Hicksville, NY
Editor's Comment: PM News believes in transparancy and the free flow of ideas in this professional publication. If a potential student "researched" the profession and based his/her decision on a letter by a retired podiatrist, it is unlikely that podiatry is the right career choice for that student.
06/17/2022
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Michael J. Trepal, DPM
In a recent posting, Dr. Dale Feinberg (retired), after touting how successful he was financially, ends his lengthy posting by stating, “Looking back at my career, I wouldn’t have changed a thing but in today’s environment podiatry would not be in my sights. The times they are a changin’."
An applicant to podiatric medical school just withdrew their application after doing some research and reading that post.
Michael J. Trepal, DPM, NY, NY
06/16/2022
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Howard Bonenberger, DPM
I suspect that I speak for more than a few with on the following debate regarding our name/degree stems, at its heart, from an inferiority complex among some but not all. That has not changed since I attended PCPM in the early ‘80s. Please note the last two letters of PCPM stand for podiatric medicine.
For those out there that want to claim they attended medical school, then please state the truth: you attended a podiatric medical school. If you had attended a (plain old) medical school, you'd have the MD or DO degree, but you didn't and you don't. Sorry if that sounds harsh or someone's feelings are hurt. It is not to pass judgment but to state it as it is.
Howard Bonenberger, DPM (Retired), Hollis. NH
06/15/2022
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Robert Scott Steinberg, DPM, Allen Jacobs, DPM
Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine and Science, North Chicago, IL is home to the Chicago Medical School and the Dr. William Scholl College of Podiatric Medicine. They continue to refuse to allow podiatry students to take pediatrics, psychiatry, or Ob/Gyn courses, the same courses that are being taught to their medical students.
This is what we are up against. I do not understand why the alumni would stand for this?
Robert Scott Steinberg, DPM, Schaumburg, IL
Regarding the recruitment of students for matriculation at the colleges of podiatry, consider the following: what is the net effect of saying "foot and ankle surgeon," or "I attended medical school," or "American Board of Foot and Ankle Surgery," or "Ohio Foot and Ankle Society," or having "Dr. Jones" rather than "DPM" on your coat? If you are not proud of the accomplishments and representations of the DPM degree, why would you expect others to dedicate themselves to the commitment necessary to obtain that degree?
Allen Jacobs, DPM, St. Louis, MO
06/15/2022
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: David Secord, DPM
I thought I’d comment on people in our profession (including Dr. Rosenblatt, for whom I have great respect) referring to MD medicine as allopathic and then putting ‘podiatric medicine’ in a separate category, as if podiatric medicine wasn’t allopathic medicine. There are a certain finite number of medical theories out there, including allopathic, homeopathic, chiropractic, native American Indian, pan-theistic naturopathy, witch doctors, Eastern Indian Ayurvedic medicine, and a few others.
Allopathic medicine has as its basis the idea of pathology from disease state: bacteria, virus, spirochete, genetic dyscrasia, prion, etc. Unless I missed something critical in medical school, that’s the disease model we in podiatry follow as well. As such, podiatric medicine IS allopathic medicine.
David Secord, DPM, McAllen, TX
06/14/2022
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Dan Klein, DPM
Dr. Block’s mention of the shortage of podiatry applications is profound! I retired from private podiatry practice 3 years ago. I retired US Air Force in 1994, following my 21 years as a commissioned podiatrist in 1974. I struggled in the Air Force for recognition by the medical field for podiatry recognition as a doctor and surgeon. Unfortunately, podiatry was never accepted as a “doctor” by the Air Force medical specialists! We were placed into the Allied Health department along with physical therapists, lab officers, optometrists, and the like. Podiatrists were looked at as pariahs of the medical corps. We were placed under the supervision of MDs who wrote very poor evaluations, and thus the dilemma of promotions beyond Captain or Major.
I have been convinced that unless podiatrists become specialists under the general medical field, we (podiatry) will become extinct. I believe podiatrists must obtain their medical degree alongside a podiatry degree in order for us to advance! The podiatry schools must offer dual degrees, medical and podiatry.
Dan Klein, DPM, Fort Smith, AR
06/10/2022
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Lawrence Kassan, DPM
Unfortunately, without an organized response to the insurance companies, they will continue to push the limits of our tolerance. Years ago, Carnegie Steel was one of the biggest companies in the world and it made Andrew Carnegie the wealthiest man in the world. His workers, however, were forced to work 12 hour shifts 7 days a week. He told them that if other local employers lowered their work days and hours [and Carnegie didn't], then eventually Carnegie Steel and its employees would be put out of business.
The money is there, the need for doctors is there; unfortunately, the organized response is not. The insurance companies, hospitals, drug companies, and medical product companies all rely on doctors to stay in business. I have been charging $250 to cash patients for a P&A since 1991. Currently, one of the larger private insurance companies in Philadelphia reimburses less than $120. Patients are willing to pay for our services... pain is a very strong motivator. I realize that going on strike is considered unethical but unless something is done, nothing will change, and the best and brightest will certainly not be considering podiatry as a career.
Lawrence Kassan, DPM, Philadelphia, PA
08/09/2021
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Alan Sherman, DPM
I agree with Jon Hultman on this issue and believe we as a profession should pursue nationally what the California Podiatric Medical Association successfully started in California. Allen Jacobs raises some valid practical issues that must be addressed but are not reasons to abandon the pursuit. There are times in the evolution of a profession where bold action is needed, and I believe this is one of those times. In general medicine, this occurred in 1910 with the release of the Flexner Report, calling for the standardization of hospital based medical education. For podiatry, it was the Selden Commission Report in 1961. We find ourselves at a crossroads in 2021.
Reading the comments from our esteemed colleagues on the issue of the equivalence of our education to that of MD/DOs, we seem to fall into 3 camps: 1)...
Editor's note: Dr. Sherman's extended-length letter can be read here.
08/05/2021
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Allen Jacobs, DPM
Using phrases such as “those with no vision” or referring to those in disagreement with the students taking the USMLE test as “the enemy” serves no useful purpose. The concerns expressed by those opposed to the white paper should be considered seriously as they represent concerns about the future of this profession.
Dr. Sokoloff consistently refers to the advances made by the California Podiatric medical Association. However I do have some questions. Do the students graduating the podiatry colleges in California take the USMLE examination? The answer is no. Are podiatrists in California still considered a podiatrist with no advanced delineation of privileges beyond that typical for podiatry in the state of California? Again, the answer is no. Are the colleges of podiatry in the state of California approved by the liaison committee on medical education which approves...
Editor's note: Dr. Jacobs' extended-length letter can be read here.
08/04/2021
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: Steven Selby Blanken, DPM
I am very concerned about the repercussions that can occur from this white paper. First of all, it said APMA approved this, but somehow, most of the members were not informed. This should have been a large topic to be discussed by all state societies prior to presenting to the other boards and societies. There should have been feedback from state to state from all members before rendering an APMA decision.
I am concerned about the drawbacks that can hit existing DPMs over 10 years from training. I am concerned how this can be used against us in malpractice claims where the prosecution would use this against a charged DPM. I am concerned how hospitals can limit the procedures they allow for older DPMs just based on this. I am curious what PICA has to say about this? Interestingly, I come from a family of podiatrists, My grandfather was a DSC and had his degree changed to DPM. He was a visionary in our field and...
Editor's Note: Dr. Blanken's extended-length letter can be read here.
09/24/2018
RESPONSES/COMMENTS (PM EDITORIALS) - PART 1A
From: James R. Christina, DPM
While APMA very much appreciates the clarification from the editor that the association has never advocated for an MD degree for podiatrists, I would like to offer some additional information to Dr. Smith and anyone who may not be fully informed about APMA’s direction. APMA has always been and will always be the association for every podiatrist. Whether you practice conservative care, reconstructive surgery, or something in between, APMA represents your interests and delivers resources to support your career. In fact, APMA recently spent more than a year on a comprehensive brand audit to identify gaps in services and ensure that we’re delivering value for every member, regardless of practice type or tenure.
We believe the wide variety of practice options available to podiatrists could play a significant role in overcoming the challenges to student recruitment. In 2018, the APMA House of Delegates directed APMA to devote significant resources (both financial and otherwise) to student recruitment. APMA has published an initial plan (www.apma.org/recruitmentplan), and we are completing a massive market research effort that is the first in the profession to take a scientific approach to uncovering perceptions of podiatry among pre-health students and current podiatry students. We are eager to put our findings to use as we produce data-driven messages and materials for the entire profession to use in promoting podiatry to prospective students. APMA is an advocate for podiatry—and the future of podiatry—in all its forms. If you are a DPM, APMA is for you.
James R. Christina, DPM, APMA Executive Director and CEO
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